Gorgias

Gorgias Taking the form of a dialogue among Socrates Gorgias Polus and Callicles the Gorgias debates crucial questions about the nature of government While the aspiring politician Callicles propounds the

  • Title: Gorgias
  • Author: Plato Walter Hamilton
  • ISBN: 9780140440942
  • Page: 474
  • Format: Paperback
  • Taking the form of a dialogue among Socrates, Gorgias, Polus, and Callicles, the Gorgias debates crucial questions about the nature of government While the aspiring politician Callicles propounds the view that might is right, and the rhetorician Gorgias argues that oratory and the power to persuade represent the greatest good, Socrates insists on the duty of politiciansTaking the form of a dialogue among Socrates, Gorgias, Polus, and Callicles, the Gorgias debates crucial questions about the nature of government While the aspiring politician Callicles propounds the view that might is right, and the rhetorician Gorgias argues that oratory and the power to persuade represent the greatest good, Socrates insists on the duty of politicians to consider the welfare of their citizens a duty he believed had been dishonored in the Athens of his time The dialogue offers fascinating insights into how classical Athens was governed and creates a theoretical framework that has been highly influential on subsequent political debate.

    One thought on “Gorgias”

    1. A Starker DialogueGorgias is very similar in structure, content, focus and argument with the Republic. In fact, it comes across almost a half-formed version of it, and scholars argue that it is in many ways like an early sketch for Republic. But unlike the Republic, which forays into metaphysics and utopias, the argument in Gorgias is anchored very much in this world, and, again in contrast to Republic where everyone seems persuaded in the end, Gorgias leaves us in the dark as to whether Socrate [...]

    2. What is rhetoric?Yes, the dialogue will turn around this issue, but not only. I literally loved it. The reflections are vivid, the text is dramatic, and one is really taken in the story. One imagines to be in the place of Callicles and to debate or to be in the place of Socrates. We also speak here of the beautiful and the ugly, the just and the unjust, the injustice, the power in many forms and also the soul. Contrary to what one might think, the choice of subjects is very varied.In terms of in [...]

    3. Γοργίας = Gorgias (dialogue), Plato, Walter Hamilton (Translator), Chris Emlyn-Jones (Commentary)Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1960=1339, In 149 Pages‬Gorgias (Greek: Γοργίας) is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato around 380 BC. The dialogue depicts a conversation between Socrates and a small group of sophists (and other guests) at a dinner gathering. In the Gorgias, Socrates argues that philosophy is an art, whereas rhetoric is a skill based on mere experience. To Socrates, mo [...]

    4. Well, if one was to sum up, it would be hard to go past Plato’s own summary: “And of all that has been said, nothing remains unshaken but the saying, that to do injustice is more to be avoided than to suffer injustice, and that the reality and not the appearance of virtue is to be followed above all things, as well in public as in private life; and that when any one has been wrong in anything, he is to be chastised, and that the next best thing to a man being just is that he should become ju [...]

    5. We should devote all our own and our community's energies towards ensuring the presence of justice and self-discipline, and so guaranteeing happiness.So Socrates wanted to make Athens great again and along the way gave the pundits and consultants the what for. His argument is measured and allows the three stooges to defeat their own assertions in fits of bumbling exasperation. The virtues of work and health are explored with nary a word about the lamp above the Golden Door. This notion of modera [...]

    6. This book is a masterpiece. It includes a critical text, and a line-by-line philological commentary. But even the reader without Greek will learn an enormous amount about Plato and related topics by reading it alongside a translation -- just skip all the entries dealing with purely philological matters.It is often said that the best commentary on Aristotle is Aristotle. Hence, important commentaries on Aristotle spend most of their time quoting (in Greek) other passages from Aristotle. The same [...]

    7. What I recall about Gorgias - again from my sophomore university philosophy class - was that there was a lengthy discussion of orators and how they are able to dupe audiences - even folks more technical than the orator him/herself. That sounds eerily relevant right now given that 1.7M people voted against the Commander and Thief who in 2012 criticised the very electoral college to which he owes his election. His campaign promises were all smoke and mirrors as Gorgias delightfully admits to in hi [...]

    8. An excellent example of philosophy justifying itself.Everybody has heard the whole cranky, rather arrogant and patronizing remark made when someone who doesn't read very much or doesn't read for pleasure or instruction feels like scoffing a bit:"Why are you reading this boring old stuff? Philosophy's good when you're younger, and you don't know anything, but once you become a real adult you should just let that stuff go" It's interesting that Socrates calls Gorgias out for basically making that [...]

    9. This is one of Plato's more interesting dialogues, if only because in this case the dialogue breaks down. Callicles just cannot seem to accept Socrates's notion that it is better to have evil done to oneself than to commit evil. He agrees with the questions which are put to him, but then he keeps going back to the notion that hedonism is really preferable to morality.Socrates even looks forward to his own trial and death. At one point, he says:You've already told me often enough that anyone who [...]

    10. Plato on the virtuous life7 August 2011 - Athens It is difficult to put a date of composition to such a text, though internal comments can assist us with determining when it was written. While I do not consider myself an expert on Plato, I would consider this text to be one of his earlier writings as he seems to be recording an earlier conversation as opposed to using Socrates to be a mouthpiece for his own philosophy. A lot have been written on Plato's dialogues, which tend to be philosophical [...]

    11. I throw my token in with Callicles when he said"By the gods, Chaerephon, I too have been present at many discussions, but I don't believe that any has ever given me so much pleasure as this. If you like to go on talking all day, you are doing me a favor". I simply can't get enough of these dialogues! I know there are flaws in them, I know that sometimes as (especially in the one on oratory) the protagonist (Socrates) gets all the words in edgewise and our dear antagonists do not make a fun enoug [...]

    12. ادم فكر ميكنه از دو سه هزار سال پيش تا حالا با وجود اين همه اتفاقايي كه توي همه ي جنبه هاي زندگي ادم ها افتاده بايد طبيعت شون هم تغيير كرده باشه ولي مثل اينكه اين طور نيست و تمدن واقعا تاثيري روي ذات ادم ها نداره. گورگياس و مي خوندم و فكر مي كردم چقدر تعداد سوفيست هايي كه دور و بر [...]

    13. Gorgias is another Sophist (after Protagoras) with who Socrates interacts along with Callicles. The dialogue is interesting in its premise: Plato essentially says that morality is greatly tied with afterlife - a reward for being 'good' in this life. This is essentially the root of the argument or what Socrates tries to qualify it as one while Callicles comes after him viciously.While Protagoras retires from the argument (which goes nowhere), Gorgias simply doesn't participate. Gorgias being the [...]

    14. أنا أفضل أن أستخدم قيثارة غير متوافقة الاوتار وكلها نشاز، أو أن أكون رئيساً لفرقة مغنين غير منتظمين، أو أن أجد نفسي غير متفق ومعارض لجميع الناس، عن أن أكون مختلفاً مع نفسي وحدها ومعارضاً لها.

    15. Too old to rate. Reading this in a yellowed library book, with edges of the pages flaking off and falling into my lap as I read, Gorgias made a strong argument, more unintentionally than intentionally, for the uselessness of rhetoric. Time has turned Plato's wisdom into despotism and Socrates' humility into a shield to hide his philosophy's flaws behind. Does Plato still offer anything to teach us today, not merely as history but as genuine philosophy? A lot of what he says are certainly good po [...]

    16. Her ne kadar zaman aşımına uğramış bir sonuca bağlansa da Platon'un "Gorgias Ya Da Retorik Üstüne" eseri iyi ile kötünün ne olduğunu derin bir şekilde inceleyen, bunu yaparken de sanatın ne olduğunu açıklamaya çalışarak okuyucunun ufkunu açmayı başaran bir kitap. Sanatı daha çok politikanın vazgeçilmez aracı retorikle yani sözle etkileme sanatı üzerinden açıklamaya çalışan kitabın günümüzde bile hala devam eden sanat tartışmalarına ön ayak olduğu bir [...]

    17. Ben hakikaten sevmiyorum bu Platon'u ya. Gorgias'ı tekrar okuyunca tekrar farkettim. Şimdi kitap elimde değil, zaten sağlıklı analizler yapacak halim ve iştiyakım da yok ama özetle şöyle söyleyebilirim: Platon, Sokrates'in tartışmayı sanki son derece sistematik ve kullandığı kavramların her birini açık seçik tanımlayarak yürüttüğü gibi bir izlenim vermeye çalışıyor ve fakat aslında durum hiç de öyle değil.Platon, Sokrates'in muhataplarını kendilerini bir şe [...]

    18. Sin duda leer los Diálogos de Platón (Atenas, 427 - 347 a. C.) siempre resulta una tarea estimulante y enriquecedora. En Gorgias lo que se discute es el valor que tiene la retórica. Para Platón, que habla por boca de Sócrates, no tiene ninguno. Sócrates ve la retórica como una cháchara que emplean los políticos para lisonjear al pueblo, diciéndole lo que este quiere oír y no lo que debe oír, lo que conllevaría un correctivo la mayoría de las veces, pero que permitiría a los mandam [...]

    19. Socrates goes though a mind-numbing series of overly-long questions about some issues of philosophical import. While in the Protagoras Socrates complains about long-winded statements, he states in this dialogue that a four sentence response by Polus was “a lengthy exposition.” Unlike Polus, who Socrates treats unfairly, Socrates meets his intellectual match with Callicles. Callicles is not bullied into simplistic yes or no answers to questions and to a logic that he finds difficult to follow [...]

    20. I read this twenty years ago and participated in my first weekend retreat sponsored by the Basic Program of Liberal Education of The University of Chicago. It was an exciting weekend as we sat up past midnight discussing Plato's arguments for education and the power of the sophists represented by Gorgias. As part of the weekend we watched the film, Educating Rita, and it has become one of my favorites always bringing memories of that weekend and Plato's Gorgias.The familiar saying of Socrates is [...]

    21. Gorgias is structured in three sections, each section consists of a dialectic argument in dramatic form. The main focus is rhetoric and its uses. What is rhetoric? Is the purpose of rhetoric to win an argument or get to the 'truth'? Historical context: The 5th century saw the spread of Sophistry and the professional use of rhetoric. Law courts were public occasions, Sophists went around giving lessons in law court rhetoric with an end to instructing others on how to get power and hold onto it. R [...]

    22. Summary notes:◉ Any art (or practice) that's done merely for the sake of pleasure is a bad art (knack). A good one (craft) is done for the sake of goodness. In other words, a craft improves (think, a dietitian), while a knack only pleases (think, a chef). (Socrates uses rhetoric, a practice which incorporates the art of persuasion into lawmaking, to make this point.)◉ It is better to suffer wrongdoing than to do wrong oneself. (Controversial statement.)◉ Virtue is knowing what's good for y [...]

    23. I feel the need to point out that while my ISBN matches, my book only has 149 pages (as opposed to the supposed 224, according to ). I dunno what I'm missing out on, but as far as I can tell my book contains all its parts.This book makes a lot of complex arguments, and at times I found it hard to follow. There were several occasions where I had to read passages and even whole pages over again because I got lost in the arguments. I think the instances where Plato chooses to have Socrates restate [...]

    24. Besides the philosophy, which has been much discussed, I also found interesting Socrates's unusual tone in this dialogue. He is much fiercer and more opinionated than in others, and the whole discussion itself seems more like a heated argument than the typical philosophical debate. Callicles even goes as far as to say Socrates is on the level of an annoying child for studying philosophy at his age.

    25. It's Plato so it's obviously going to be remarkable from a literary standpoint. Plato idolizes his deceased mentor Socrates in this absolutely profound dialogue which is centered around rhetoric: its meaning, its use, its significance, and most importantly its moral implications. Socrates, throughout the dialogue, delves deep into the world of moral truth and eternal goodness. This dialogue, as its own unique genre of literature, explores how temporary pleasures contrasts heavily with actual goo [...]

    26. Gorgias é um dos livros centrais de Platão. Nele, coloca-se o papel do filósofo diante dos sofistas e a ordem da alma como a fonte para se julgar a política. O verdadeiro estadistas não é o que atende aos desejos do povo, mas o que permite que o povo se torne melhor. A desordem de Atenas tinha chegado ao nível que um homem como Sócrates, que afirma sobretudo a verdade, não pode ser tolerado pois o jogo agora é de aparências, de retórica. Górgias e seus seguidores tentam afirmar a ju [...]

    27. This is my introduction to ancient literature, and a spectacular one at that. I did not expect to be engaged in Socrates’ flawless arguments, repetitive yet ingenious questioning, and shockingly relevant message about the duty of the authentic rhetorician and politician- to make people better and lead communities with virtue and self-discipline instead of indulging their audience in flattery. Although that is the main thread of the dialogue, the “rabbit trail” arguments about justice, self [...]

    28. I remember reading this a few years ago, but somehow I decided to rent and read it again and I have to say that I'm so freaking happy that I did. Now that I'm older and perhaps a little bit more mature, I now can digest the content and wisdom Gorgias (the book itself, duuuh) has to offer and I even enjoyed it more than I did back then. In the whole dialogue it's seems to me that it's pretty clear where I find myself, and sure some arguments took thinking as you go on(how could it not?), but it w [...]

    29. If you've never read Plato, start with Gorgias. This extended dialogue lays out many of the foundational principles of democracy (and Socrates' fiercest critiques of its Athenian implementation) and its arguments maintain their relevance today, even as the democratic ideal lists ever more drunkenly toward a capitalist bastardization that suppresses more and more citizens, not least in these United States. Walter Hamilton's canonical English translation serves the material well, rendering among m [...]

    30. Prima recitire. Se pune în discuție rolul filosofiei, scopul și natura retoricii, conceptul de dikaiosyne, problema virtuții, a binelui, se prezintă atribuțiile statului și se expune un mit al „judecății de apoi”. Impresia cu care rămân după cvasi-dialectica lui Socrates cu Kallikles este aceea de părere de rău pentru impactul negativ pe care l-a avut doctrina platoniciană asupra scrierilor sofistice. E bună imaginea pe care mi-o oferă față de sofiști, dar sunt prea puți [...]

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